Ilya Prigogine Spring, 1974		"(there are) useful aspects in what you have written."     ..."If you want to see me in Texas during March & April  I will be glad to discuss this matter with you."
Mike Simmons Santa Fe Institute, 1992	..............	"I will make your paper available to our researchers."
L. Cowles Editor, Cambridge University Press, 1993	. . . . . .	"our advisors ... are all agreed that this   ... work ... is really the opening salvo in what is likely to be rather heated discussions."
K. Jensen Editor, Oxford University Press, 1993		"(potentially) .. a serious original contribution to scientific theory."
L. MacAllister PhD Mathematics, 1993		"(you) raise some interesting questions to a mathematician." "(this is) a radical change"
Carlos Lavastida  Systems Analyst,1993		"I really like what you are doing with mathematics."
Victor Comello Editor, R&D Magazine, 1994		"I haven't found anything wrong with your ideas.  It's just that they are so new and such a different way of looking at things that it is taking me some time to try and understand them fully.  I will keep reading ... and get back to you."
James Strange Mathematician, U of Nevada, 1995		"These ideas are worth investigating further."
Robert Grimes Emeritus Programmer,      Systems Analyst,1995		"I found the treatise very interesting, filled with latent possibilities and (feel) he is on to something much larger.    . . .    You are encouraged to read his thesis and assay its merit as to the value to the scientific community, as I feel it could be a significant contribution, and philosophically challenging ...   It would appear to me that the current preoccupation with probability histories cries out for new perspectives to assist in evaluation of such fundamental thought."
Anonymous Referee (reviewing "Integrity: Getting Past Gödel", Jan 1996)		"The paper contains no scientific result or original theoretical concept, but is merely an enthusiastic pangyric to the general idea of complexity, dropping names and buzz-words wholesale along the way without clear evidence that the various concepts mentioned are really understood in their relation to each other, and without contributing any sufficiently sharply identifiable new ideas to the subject.      The first page is almost a perfect example of the genre -- dragging in ten Great Names with no clear motivation.  To see Gödel and Heisenberg playing any comparable role is to misunderstand both:  this is a pet peeve.      P.2. Which is worse?   "Finity will never be Infinity"  or  "There is a light that transcends the limitations."?   My, my.  And here comes Linde."

         

 

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1997

Anonymous  (October, 1997)    "Not sure what to make of it.  Will have to read more."

Andreas Goppold (Dec, 1997)   "yellow script is hard to read !!!"

Joseph Engelberg (U of Kentuky, Dec 1997)  
     "I found your message to Tom Mandel regarding Gell-Mann's "plectics" creative, meaningful."

Steve Kurtz (Dec, 1997)   "..website is ... well done IMO."

Frank Wiley (Dec1997) 
    "I have just found your Integrity/Ceptual institute pages, and I am extremely excited about the scope of the theory you are presenting.  I have been busy this morning downloading many of your pages, to read over the next few days and weeks. When I have had time to absorb them, I do plan to contact you again with comments and feedback."

Tony Judge  (Dec 1997)  "Congratulations -- it needed doing"

 

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1998

Dean Falk   (Feb 1998)   
    "Your ideas about the application of concepts related to (the evolution of) complexity sound interesting. ... I'll put some reprints in the mail to you now. If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at Finlay and Darlington's 1995 Science article ("Linked regularities in the development and evolution of mammalian brains"), 268:1578-1584.                         Best wishes, Dean Falk"   (Paleontologist, author of "Braindance")

Pete Brown (Feb 1998)
"I enjoyed browsing through your resources for the last cupla hours, and was glad to see further references to the Tucson conference, and especially the philosophy by which you approach the subject matter.       Also, it was interesting to find the following quote at the introduction to a number of your articles: "FIRE WITHOUT, FIRE WITHIN".  I have been trying to present a similar simplicity in my personal writings which you may like to glance through."     (Mountain Man Graphics, Australia)

Charles Tart (Mar,1998)
    Responding to my comment ".. If people had to wait in their acknowledgement of use of "vision" based on whether it was fully (scientifically) understood or not, then we would never allow or accept the knowledge we live by."                                                             "I like that."

Umor Ozkul (Mar,1998)
      "It was nice to read your site.  Do you think your work can be considered related although Santa Fe Institude considers it irrevelant? I would be nice if you could compare yourself with Constructivists."

John Croft   (Mar,1998)      "provocative and enlightening"

Madeline Gins (Mar,1998) (Artist, writer)   "Shinnyu the signifier of transitivity budding/blossoming as origin?!"

Robin Green  (Mar,1998)
       "I had great difficulty understanding any of it...     I'm afraid I can't say I understood any of it. I am familar with Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, fuzzy logic, the Turing test; I have read Godel-Escher-Bach, and many books about science and maths, but I cannot see what you are getting at.  "I think it would help if someone could do a sort of translation into more easier-to-understand language. I imagine that only a very very tiny proportion of people could understand it in its present form, which would be a great shame if it is an important paradigm shift of great value to humanity. I would like to understand it, but I just don't know where to start!"

Robert Rose (Apr 1998)      "I would be honored to be a contribitor to this website."  {Giclee artist}

Robert Stilger (Apr 1998)    (Resilient Communities; Transformation Network co-founder with Bob Theobald)
       "Glad your energy is in this process."

John Croft  (Apr, 1998)
      (On "GaiaPC" discussion list, responding to my comment): "The distinction becomes 'where is the dividing line between inate autonomic decision making versus coordinated-sentient contemplation?'   Ie, what are the qualitative aspects involved?   Humanity is astride both.  We are autonomic organic beings, having  evolved in synthesis with the 'natural' world. The challenge seems, as Bruce and others have well stated, how to maintain that 'naturalness' - which gaianly self-maintains the well being of all its membership on all levels - yet promote human future ... which seems to be separating itself from that holistic integration. We have obligations in both directions."                  "Nice summary!"

a systems specialist (Apr, '98)
      (to Tony Judge, discussing presentations at the July 1998 Intl Soc for the Systems Sciences conference in Atlanta). "I differ from James and his pragmatism in that while he provides us with a methodology, I want to go further and include as a philosophy (general principles) that which includes all perspectives." 

Chris Locke  (Apr, 1998)   (of 'EGR') 
  "..as to Entropy Gradient Reversals being your ceptual property, I took a look at your pages and you were certainly thinking about some interesting stuff. but I mean, look:  you can't be suggesting that you won the concept of negentropy, or can you?"

David Hawk (Apr, 1998)
       "Thanks for your elaboration on 'nice'.  I enjoyed reading it. It seems you are in the functionalist (20th century) side of utility. ...   A group at Tokyo University has published a book on finding forms for things that may be useful a hundred years from now, as a recent anti-functionalist approach. ...  In fact my concern about your thesis has now shifted to ... your use of the concept of entropy. Could you tell me a bit more about why and how you use it. Since many of your other comments are so interesting I would like to know how this fits, or doesn't? Entropy has long been a danger signal for my review of systems science concepts. I think systems people have been too easy and optimistic in their use of and relations to this thermodynamic construct."

Valery Kourinski  (Apr, 1998)  
"Disparity - if not too extreme - is a gradient which encourages action.”     “Life is an art form, an exploration, not a final achievement. Diversity is not lack-of-unity. It is the foundation of synergy.”
"Those quotes are what I will use in my lecturing. Don’t you mind?  Besides I shall hang your poetic article culturologically depicting economy on the wall of virtual forum in real mental space of my pupils community."

Alan McGowen (May, 1998)
  "Unfortunately, when you decorate your posts with terms of physics and math you don't understand, it does come off as a bamboozle. It is intellectually dishonest. I'd suggest a change in style at the very least." ... "And on and on -- one leap of loose verbal analogy after another: stream of consciousness pseudoscience."

Bob Theobald (May, 1998)   "Interesting stuff. Thanks."

Brain Dunfield (May, 1998)  
     GaiaPC. Discussing changing peoples perception of their relationship to planetary ecology.  I wrote, "Unless (people) can be offered or shown some real tangible immediate gratification to compensate for perceived short term sacrifices.  Positive incentives, not negative incentives, not education and training or whatever.   ... I just want to make it clear that (I believe that people need a real) recipe of incentives ... I mean some absolutely new creative feedback mechanisms that make a person or nation say "Hey, I want in on that!"   ... Altruism and high minded ideals are great, but give me a loaf of bread and something to drink first. ...  integration of incentives is the only cost effective way of accomplishing the changes we see as necessary. It's the Gaian way, when you think about it.    Let's put our ideas where our talk is, to shift gears on the old wisdom (money where mouth is). Creative positive alternatives are needed, not more reviews of the problems."

    "This is well thought out and practical.  ... Jamie makes the point that incentives,  immediate and appropriate ones, are the best way to change behavior. think on.         Yours in gaiatude, Brian Dunfield"

Diane Haugen  (May, 1998)  (Commenting on ICSSSE98.htm) 
     "You got your mensch voice back -- did you notice?    Sometimes it takes a while to get past the academese and find your real voice, but you did it with this paper.    It's terrific!      Take a breather and go out and look at the stars and listen very, very quietly. They may be serenading you."

Bob Theobald (May, 1998) (On NUC Commentary # 8) 
   "Neat stuff. I'm forwarding it on to some people." ...   "I am more and more convinced that a large amount of our challenge is to learn to live with journey rhetorics, uncertainty and mystery. The idea that we are moving toward a super-rational culture strikes me as contrary to the trends that I am coming to understand and appreciate."

Charles Laughlin (May, 1998)
    "Hal Puthoff and I have this discussion all the time.    I see no evidence for pan-psychism. The idea of the universe being conscious apart from conscious beings is silly to me. And there is no evidence for it.  My take on it is that it is the product of naive phenomenology: the world of my experience is the product of consciousness, so therefore everything in creation is conscious. In fact, the world of my experience arises and passes away between my ears and there is a transcendental reality that unfolds with me included in it. Sentient beings ARE the universe becoming conscious of itself.  The universe is evolving into consciousness through the medium of biological systems."

Morisa & Mouse (May, 1998)   (Critiquing NUC "Concept Rhymes")
  "...while I think the paper is well-written and the idea of "conceptual diversity" well-conveyed, I do not feel like I am learning anything that I don't already know."  ...  "The problem at hand being [if I am understanding this correctly] how to find design solutions for promoting and solidifying a system that encourages diversity, creativity, and, hopefully, less wasted energy on hatred, destruction, "power-tripping" and general stupidity."  ....    

   "I think what I am trying to say is that Jamie's writing is always good, sometimes elegant, but the underlying structure needs to be looked at.  What analogies for what purpose aimed at what solution? I would like to know where I am supposed to be going when I read these analogies. Or what it is you would really like me to ponder? And why? I am looking for the connection to structural change here. We know it is needed, so 'how' is what I am adamantly going after.... "

   "There is an information overload out there. So far I like what I am seeing with Jamie and his cyber_colleagues. Jamie has such an exuberant literary style that I think he is definitely an asset to the more 'dry' approach of the analytical minds he seems to be working with. Good combination. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to read all of the [ISSS & ICSSSE98] papers but it looks like some of the impending current issues are finally being addressed by some people who might have a chance of succeeding in ACTUALLY changing our current system [which I see as collapsing rapidly and causing more destructive debris than ever]."

    "I am 110% in favor of the promotion of a more divergent and constructive culture than the mess "we've evolved into", but I am still working on my full comprehension of where I think the "wrong turn in Toledo" occurred. My entire approach is from another angle altogether and I don't want to confuse the two because they  each have their place in the scheme of things. I don't know if my "critique" is valuable to you or not. I hope it is."

Michel Cabanac (June,1998)
    "I just read your comment of Jan 1996, on arrogance.  Your reflexion reminds me of Mark 10:14, of Luke 10:21, and of John 14:11, as for the importance of the least educated, the humblest brains who are equal to and as valuable as those brains who won public, social, or scientific recognition."

Charles Laughlin  (June,1998)
     "I am with you fully in decrying the life/non-life dichotomy, and I feel this is the real importance of the rapidly developing field of biophysics.  My friend, Fritz Popp in Germany is very close to showing that cells communicate socially by non-thermal biophoton emissions. they likely live "aware" of changes in a field of the very subtlest quantum coherence patterns. Time will tell whether this is demonstrated, but I feel that something like that has occurred. Moreover, the real import of quantum mechanics of late has been to show, over and over again, that the observer is part of the unfolding of the implicate structures of reality (to borrow from Bohm)."

Sylvia Austerlic  (June,1998)
  "... groups or communitites need 'landmarks', both physical and conceptual, that distinguish that community, provide identity and awareness, and generally helps to build shared perspectives.  The search for a common framework for "being and sharing" is, in fact, a challenge in which "we need to combine more views to reach comprehensive, even holistic understanding. We need to be open to using more than one "eye", to have plural steresocopic perspective of events and situations. ...  Since we are not single atomic particles that can be quantum mechanically "super-positioned", we are constrained to experiencing "points of view" and perspectives differently from each other, literally and figuratively.   And yet, we share a COMMON WORLD, with shared opportunities to take turns, step into each other shoes, so to speak, and see and appreciate how and why another person thinks in a different way or has different opinion of things. This mean that we have the OPEN POTENTIAL to extend the courtesies of consideration to anyone and   everyone we encounter, and work with and maintain society with. This is a "crucial exercise in performance", because when we open ourselves to projecting and imagining the literal experiences of viewing situations in different ways, that FAMILIARITY becomes to us. It becomes something we identy with and therefore can feel kin to. And once that happens, the techniques of co-supportive social actions and encouragement of human dignity and integrity for everyone becomes as natural as "seeing" ...  Representations and meanings need to be merged and morphed to avoid the fixation on one dogma or one display ... The trick is to become aware of our perspective and understand that it is all right and even desirable to CHANGE them as appropriate ... How can we accomplish this? The only way seems to have people initiate "DOING AND SHARING", testing ways and modes and alternative solutions which accomplish mutual goals, or hold themselves in a checks-and-balances positions".    (in an open internet  communique to several discussion groups, quoting from:  "'A House of Horizons and Perspectives :  A cognitive deep open-space for positioning, comparing, mergin and morphing our metaphors, models, maps and views". Heiner Benking and James Rose, 1998. ISSS~ISIS 98 paper, )

Willard Uncapher (June,1998)   (U.Texas)    
    ".. it is one thing to create a kind of epistemological closure related to heuristic finitude - but there are futher questions related to what kinds of organization and so forth we can establish as human beings. The evolutionary and ecosystems theoreticians have a lot of interesting things to say about the managment of complexity that are pretty much missing from the SFI group. I tend to think that economics is involved, but you must understand that from the perspective of any SFI member, there will be nothing wrong. 'You aren't aware of what you aren't aware' to put it as a tautology.                I'm sure you have have done more research here than meets the eye."

Bruce Buchanan (6/98)
  "....with respect to possibilities of language and modelling, there are many levels of coherence and organization among the systems and hierarchies with which we understand and model our experiences of the world."

Yaneer Bar-Yam (6/98)
    "I admit I am actually surprised by Michael's (response). Entropy is not only a property of closed systems. However, there is a problem in that the term entropy is continually missaplied. This does not mean, however, that working with this concept is not important.    Since I am not following the Complex-M discussions I do not know what motivated Michael's actions, but I can guess that the term entropy is being very much abused and that this was the reason.

      In any case, entropy is a perfectly good topic for discussion at ICCS since Michael is not a moderator of the conference and there is no reason to forbid its discussion in that context."

Willard Uncapher (6/98)
    " I briefly looked at your Integrity material as located on such sites as http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/ ....  My first comment, and one I must make with a  degree of forcefulness, is that you open your heart to SFI. In Buddhism there is a practice, which I am sure has Christian analogs, in which one exchanges one's self with  another. It is a basic practice for engaging in the deep path, the path that transcends common understanding. Such openness will open your own mind to other sides, and thus clear your own conceptions even of things like complexity. You must consider Kauffman as your own brother, someone a bit different than you, but one that is worth the effort to love in his errors, to learn from at every chance."

     "In terms of your own writings, I wonder about the stability of the concepts you use.  Sometimes your sense of being reminds me of that Herbert Guenther/Heidegger pairing. The problem within the context that someone from Guenther's spontaneous being paradigm is to consider just what the 'being' of the signs to the path of being actually are. They can be dismissed as mere 'aids' to development, or accepted as 'entities' unto themselves to be reasearch with etymological fastidiousness. But what happens if there is no 'being' or 'entities' as you have currently conceived them. It is one thing to write about the holographic connectedness of things, the interdependent co-production of existence, another to use terminal desciptions of this, including the notion of interdependence (pratityasamutpada in Sanskrit) just mentioned to situate people vis-a-vis existence around them. There is an 'epistemological' development possible, but what concerns me is the practice of the everyday, and the formation of such things as war, genocide, and suffering of all kinds. And it is at that level that I think we must be quite attentive to the notions of motivation."

PPA Club, Russia (6/98)  
    "Dear Mr. Rose,    It was a great pleasure to see the website of V.A. Kourinsky!  Our Post-Psychology and  Autodidactics Club is hosting Valeri Kourinsky in Kiev with three-days seminar and we were very glad that the site came up these days also. The seminar is extremely interesting and there were a lot of light in the eyes of participants. Your name and your assistance were warmly and highly mentioned by Valeri Oleksandrovich!
                                                                                                                             Sincerely, PPA Club."                                            and

    "Dear Mr. Rose,     The interest to the seminars of Valeri Kourinsky was so big that we had to organize two more of them. There is definitely your part in such success. I quoted you (not nce) and it is because your introduction to Valeri Kourinsky site and letter to me are very poetic. I told my friends  last night that though you are there there is a feeling you are with us.    We are going to negotiate with Valeri and we want him to come at least for a week every month up to 2000. I understand how difficult it can be but we can do a lot of useful things together. We are thinking about setting up Post-Psychlogy and Autodidactics Center in Kiev.   I support your idea about translating VAK English works into Russian and putting them on the web site you made.                                                                                                                        Sincerely, Yuri (Bessarab)"

James Rose (6/98)             Re: Anti-Viagra Agri-tech?  posted on Gaia-PC to Steve Kurtz.  (NUC Notice3)
"Steve,    I heard this on the radio this week and my heart nearly stopped. In order to gain rigid control, to have farmers forced to buy new productive seed every year (good for money businesses) this genetic switch will be the worst disaster in natural existence. It not only "puts the brakes" on evolution, it stops it dead in its tracks, literally. If this manipulation is permitted or exploited in any way all life is in jeopardy. I can't believe the short sighted folly of monetary greed!!! Evolution will literally die if this is allowed.   There will be no "future" ... only "continuation".
                                                                                                                 Jamie"

Steve Kurtz (6/98)  reply   " I fully agree with your words.
                                                                                             Steve"

Elaine Parent (6/98)
         "I have read your treatise and sorry to say, I have absolutely nothing to disagree with. And since I am basically a cognitive psychologist, I have had that perspective (particularly, with an awareness of individual differences in perception) for some time.  That's an elegant 'what.' Now, I gotta pose the essential question of 'so what?' In operational terms, what are the implications (for action) of anyone? or everyone? And to move past philosophy into science, one has to be able to demonstrate effects which can be replicated, right?

        Our at times combatative communication has CERTAINLY helped me clarify my own 'so what.' My fascination with systems thinking and a systems framework is, pure  and simple, that I see it as a way of systematically both assessing and implementing CHANGE.    Since I am a psychologist, through and through, my passsion is helping people change.... whether it be change, in the form of conceptual change (i.e. learning) or in the understanding of how they, as a unique human being 'work.' As I may have indicated, I also see its potential as a unifying framework for understanding all aspects of human experience and thus for integrating the work of the various subdisciplines of psychology."

Heiner Benking (6/98)        discussing Commentary #12 titled "Concept Rhymes"                                    

"look !      I have added the /context as it is the concept / context mapping I always  focussed on.   your bulletin was only concept rhymes                                                                       h" "Heiner, interesting interpretation, but from my point of view, that isn't quite correct ...."close", but not perfect... "context" was left implicit in the example "woof" to "bark" to "willow"  ...  each concept-jump went to someother aspect and other contextual situations. The context-change was left as subliminal (understood) part of the example imagery. In that location ... a brief bulletin/commentary ... I was not positioning for a complete dissertation/explanation, rather, to make the "context" distinctions, between an "enacter/experiencer" and an outside "examiner" who has a different agenda and criteria.   In a concise story-way I made several "context" distinctions prominent, even while using the focus notion of "concept". It is good that we don't mimic each other, but complement with alternative expressings.                                                                                                    Jamie"

Nikitas Assimakopoulos (6/98)   re: formation of the "Applied Systems Science" journal
"Dear Jamie,
     I am pleased to inform you that you have been admitted for the Associate Editors list. I also want to announce to you that the Editor of the ASS journal will be Professor Russell L. Ackoff, Chairman of the Board of INTERACT.          Until I hear from you, best wishes.              Nikitas."

Dr. Yitzhak I. Hayutman (6/98)
    "I was very happy to the opportunity both to learn of your work and become updated on the society for systems research which I have not followed for someyears. The theme of  "Integrity/Integration" seems to tie well with the "Jerusalem=Yeru-Shalem=WholeVision" theme of the www.thehope.org site I've been developing. I wonder if you'd like it and find it worth while to include in your links, and I have instructed my internet assistant to include a link to your     "Integrity/Holism" links in our "Cyber-Library of Human Reconstruction". "

Paris Arnopoulos (6/98)
     "Very interesting ideas indeed.   Perhaps you might be interested to peruse my book on Sociophysics: Chaos & Cosmos in Nature & Culture. Nova Science Publishers, NY, 1993. Its model relates internal (spiritual-mental) with external (social-ecological) reality.Good Luck. Paris Arnopoulos,Concordia University, Montreal,Canada"

Valery Kourinsky(6/98)
      "Dear Jamie,    Here in Kiev all of my seminarists are charmed and enchanted with your activity, and  interest is becoming more and more deep and serious. I have presentiment that the new generation in its majority is here ready as if a priori to apprehend our crops.   Recently I got to know that my granddaughter (9 years old)writes poems, piles of poems. May be it is also a token from the future, eh?.. Thank you for your presence in the being.                                      Valery"

    "Jamie,  You have been become here famous! Some people quote you and among them there are different press-men and press-women.  Today I have affairs to arrange on ICTV where I am going to launch something new in addition to my long-term program ---more closely connected with our common intentions.       Valery"

Catarina Geoghan (6/98)      to Heiner Benking
"I've explored all the websites referred to and I'm pleased that I did. I have a much better understanding of what the dialogue movement is about now and this, combined with reading "The Search for Meaning" (ed. Paavo Pylkannen) at the  moment is allowing me to catch up with Bohm's proposals after "Wholeness and the Implicate Order".

I attended a workshop on consciousness organised by Paavo last year, at the end of which an afternoon was spent in a round table dialogue.   It very soon became evident what a difficult task it is for people with different backgrounds to communicate effectively, even with a shared interest (i.e. consciousness). I can see how the development of methods, such as time-credits, may be a necessary tool for progress to be made in the field of consciousness studies which involves integration of so many.                                              Catarina"

John Warfield (6/98)
        "Your concept can benefit greatly if you identify the Thought Leaders from the past whose ideas are still revolutionary today and which, when integrated, form a viable and valuable package. Included among the more recent ones are,especially,Charles Sanders Peirce, Augustus De Morgan, Frank Harary, and Friedrich A. Hayek."

John Mikes (6/98)
    "J: ... I reread your emergence:you are not better than the crowd! you identify emergence as 'emerging', out of which you never get to the stable quality of the characteristic of an assemblage. - OR - do you want to call this something else? I use emergent qualia as opposed to emerging dynamix. I try to find a good punching phrasing   for differentiating this. Just as to separate my info from Shannon's or from Wheeler's bit.  I get too much email, no time left to 'texturize' ideas.(=write) Lately someone (NZ) started to send me a seminar on lateral thinking by E. DeBono"

Heiner Benking (7/98)
      "I found that the old translations for example of the TAO as the EMPTINESS are misleading it should be the OPEN SPACE, which might be full and empty at the same time, depends from where you are looking (at the open-white virtual space)."

James Rose  (7/98)   reply  
   "Heiner,   What you wrote here is fantastic! In a few easy sentences you make the essence of your model comprehendable and tie it in with the orient (and fuller richer history) by the elegant shift in rewording the definition of 'Tao ~ empty' to "Tao ~ open".

   The implication for my own writings is the issue I confronted Stu Kauffman about last year ... he was hesitatingly talking about "adjacent possibles" in probability considerations for complex systems ; my concern was relational formalsim that would be strong enough to umbrella the whole panorama of "extended possibles" ...(which I used the contemporary term for: 'extended eigenspaces", rather than 'possibles')

     I edited what you wrote into a little smoother English ... I hope you like it. I think you should use it everywhere as your synopsis. I am putting it on your intra-site as a prominent quote.          Jamie"

Tony Judge  (7/98)
       "I am interested in the dynamics between formulators -- the 3 people, the 4 people, the 5 people etc. It is the framework within which they can be reconciled that intrigues me. I endeavoured to clarify the challenge in http://www.uia.org/strategy/stratcon.htm    from point 10 on... Thanks for the links,                  Tony"

morisa  (7/98)
        "Jamie,  I did read some of Kourinsky's stuff... I like it.   BUT, I still am waiting for you to answer a question that I have asked several times... WHAT are you actually trying to accomplish with this material? I'm not asking about individual content here, I am asking, "Who is your "target" audience?", "Who do you WANT to attract to this [your] web site?".

        There are thousands of web sites available working on similar issues, though not exactly the ISSS people. For instance, the United Nations site [not very well run in some ways], has maybe 300 pages or more if you count all of the links from their site. The UN-Yale Workshop site [a true disaster in terms of intelligent communication] has so many changing pages that no-one can keep up, including them.  These are both examples of big-bucks web sites that are almost "dysfunctional" because of too much information and so little co-ordination. They are also very confused on their sense of direction. Not very able to grasp the new medium. They are so used to withholding information that they aren't able to work with   the real world.

        Your site is NOT like either of those [thank GOD], but I am still trying to get a feel for the "starting point", the real purpose of what you are putting together. WHY are you [personally] writing your own works? WHY are you putting specific authors or scientists on your web site. I want to know what is the driving force behind the entire site. Only then can I comment on another author's work in a fair and just way. Not out of context.

        In other words, I could be "critical" of Kourinsky's english, grammer, and all of that [especially on one paper], but I don't think that is what is suppossed to be important here. So then I ask, WHO is going to be directed toward this work and WHY. Then maybe I'll understand if it is affective in attaining the DESIRED goal. Not my clueless assumption of goal with it's then related, but falsely based, understanding [of mine so to speak]... which leads to a wrongly based critique.

        Does that make sense to you. Do you realize how important that part is?     m & m"

James Rose (7/98)  reply
       "Sitting down?   Audacity in its ultimate [is why the CI web is]. I want to present such a new and unrefutable perception of 'existence' that humanity's future will be forever altered in its evolution by recognizing the validity of the schemata. THE simple, elegant and totally pervasive relational mechanism(s) of how-existence-functions.   "How", mind you, not "why".   A singular set of relationships that have been and can be expressed in all the myriad ways we already perceive. The truth of the relationships I discuss are so valid that the majority of reactions I get are: "yeh!? So what? I already knew that." ... regardless of the topic or venue or field or specific subject matter (!). That's quite a spectrum of matter of fact applicability and agreement, and, it goes right to the correctness of the model.

        How do I want to see people apply such 'understanding"? ... live more competent, coordinated lives.  Recognize common interests instead of (life-threatening) competitions ; encourage education and opportunity for all offspring ; encourage life values in exploring the "creative" of each person rather than "consumerism" ; accept that alteration and change (biological/mental) are to be encouraged as a sign of evolution of our species into different ones ... not be denied/destroyed as abberations to the status quo ; build a world integrated economy that doesn't relegate local "downturns" as reasons to trash people, companies, nations, ideas ... ie "immediate utility" isn't the end-all be-all criteria of 'value' especially human value. Appreciate the wonderment of life and each other, exploring all the good and by-passing the evil.

        But for myself, I want to know that these 51 (and more) years of "being" have a significance in the midst of billions of years and infinities  of dimensions ... that I contributed in some significant way to the furtherance of Life  in the Cosmos. I want to give to humanity a new vision/version of itself and of the universe all around ... and let them work out the details of how to do and what to do, themselves. (because 'freedom' is a big part of it, and I'm not God).    Jamie"

John Mikes (7/98)
            "I browsed the WEB (AltaV, Excite, Yahoo) for emergence, em.qu-a, complxy, and always found a reference to CeptInst, or JNRose, in the listings.  I wrote my piece (peace?) in emergence, pretty good, then thought: did some other guy also invented a similar thing? I found a lot of stupid emergencies, none for that complexity-criterion Which I use it for.   So maybe your thing is not that 'absolutely wrong?' (Surprized!) I have to change my base-position and make my case a special one. I found references as old as 1945, even the SFI had something on it <G>. I still didn't read the Ljubljana-text, it looks kinda heavy (for me). Those Slovenian guys are very decent and pretty good scientists. They call themselves "slavic Austrians" and say: the Balkans start at their Croatian  border. Maribor is also a sweet small town."

Timothy Lynch (7/98)          on Mindways link to Our Planet Mothership Earth
        "Kia Ora James, what a way to do it!!!!   In Maori!    Fantastic! - a foreign language! just like Star Trek.      Hurray!     My reinvigorated site nearly ready  for relaunching.          Arohanui          Tim"

Koichiro Matsuno (7/98)
         "Dear Dr. Rose:      Many thanks for your comments on my abstract for the Helsinki Conference on Emergence. Agential aspect of time is tough. The similar view may also apply to the issue of gravity. My attempt in this regard will be found in the preprint section of my webpage (listed below) under the title "#15 Cohesive interaction in biomolecules and their organizations as energy consumers (1995)". If you find anything there, please let me know it.     All the best,        Koichiro Matsuno        http://bio.nagaokaut.ac.jp/~matsuno "

Vincent Rossi (7/98)
          "As an Eastern Orthodox Christian theologian, I arrive at your "Integrity" website with a mind entirely and happily immersed in the writings and imbued with the holistic and integrative noetic vision of the Christian spiritual masters of the Patristic and Byzantine periods (4th C to 14th C), so either there is no hope for an unreconstructed traditionalist like me whatsoever, or--perhaps through the contrast of very different rhetorics, there comes a momentary flash of insight (or so one hopes). What I seem to see is an immense amount of effort being expended  to express in contemporary " cyber-ceptions"concepts which have been well known to sages and saints for over two millennia. Is there not a touch of neolatry--worship of the new--in your writings which renders your enthusiasm for "complexity" less critical than it could be? There is at least some metaphysical truth in the old saying that "if it's new,it isn't true; if it's true, it isn't new." Just calling something a "new paradigm" does not necessarily make it so, does it? Attempting to express what are in fact perennial insights in contemporary cyber-speak can create the illusion that you have discovered something new, but have you really? You write:

        "The Integrity Paradigm binds together all these things in a perspective that is unquestionably new and yet conceptually familiar and comfortable. It takes all that we currently know of the world which we are part of and re-assembles prior understandings in a substantially - and substantively - new way; melding topics that were once thought to have no connection what so ever, and showing that they are all representatives of very simple principles, which, when formed as all the incredible mutually supportive assemblies of being and potential, blossom into the vast awe inspiring beauty that is the universe - complex and vibrant on every scale of existence."

Unquestionably new? The "integrity paradigm" that you think is so breathtakingly new seems to me to be something that the Greek Fathers of the early Church of  1500 years ago, not to mention Plotinus even earlier and the Stoic philosophers earlier still, would find most congenial (though they may wonder why it takes the denizens of the future [you cybernauts] so long to say it). 2000 years ago, the "integrity paradigm" was called the doctrine of the Logos: "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with Theos and the Logos was Theos. The same was in the beginning with Theos. All things were made by him; and without him was not any   thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not" (Jn.1:1-5). 1400 years ago, St. Maximos the Confessor (580-662) brought the Logos paradigm to new heights, creating an unsurpassed synthesis that truly brought together all that was ever known in the past, all that was currently known of the world and all that could possibly be known in every age, "melding topics that were once thought to have no connection whatsoever," and showing definitively that they are all representatives of one simple and supreme principle, the Logos Principle, which as the Archetype/image/likeness pattern that forms the deep structure of the cosmos, creates the "incredible mutually supportive assemblies of being and potential" which, to the inner eye of those capable of theoria-vision, "blossom into the vast awe- inspiring beauty that is the universe"--a unity of simplicity, complexity and harmony of the Logos--the ultimate Principle of Being-and the logoi-the inner essences of all beings, a beauty which St. Maximos calls diakosmesis, or the ordered harmony of unity in complexity in the microcosm-macrocosm-metacosm that is God's creation.

        For St. Maximos the Confessor, the "house of horizons and perspectives" which was "a cognitive deep openspace for positioning, comparing, merging and morphing our metaphors, models, maps and views" was self-evident. It was the Church as the cosmic Living Symbol and memory palace par excellence--the image and likeness at one and the same time of:1) God; 2) the suprasensible universe of universes; 3) sensible universe of heaven and earth; 4) the universe of imaginal and physical worlds; 5) the human microcosmos as male and female. For me, then, following St. Maximos, the Orthodox Church is my house of all horizons and perspectives and the Logos is the ancient and ever-new paradigm which understands, explains and encompasses all. The words that St. Paul used when he preached his sermon on the Unknown God to the sophisticated Greeks on Mars Hill are equally applicable to the sophisticated cybernauts of today: "In him, we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28).Integrity = diakosmesis,  the perennial  integrity paradigm.
                                                                                              Sincerely,                Vincent Rossi"

Koichiro Matsuno (7/98)       
        "Dear James: (Call me Koichiro for brevity)     Thanks for your comments.     When I said DeltaP-subx cannot survive indefinitely as referring to Conrad (1991), I was considering an intricacy between the conservation of momentum and the uncertainty in the measurement of momentum. If we accept the conservation of momentum more than anything else, we would get into trouble with the position-momentum uncertainty principle. In the same token, if we accept the UP as being most fundamental, we would have to live with violation of the momentum conservation. Similar strange situation would also apply to energy. What we require is to vindicate both the conservation laws and the uncertainty principle to a reasonable extent. This is the problem of measurement proceeding on the part of material bodies themselves. (I have called it internal measurement.) A recipe I came up with is to couple both energy and momentum to save the conservation law and the UP for each.

        In standard interpretation of quantum mechanics, each of the conservation law and the uncertainty principle is appreciated rather independently. This practice may be okay if we do not care about the intricacy involved in the interplay between the two. But, once we note that we physicists are not the only observers who can measure things, the interplay between the conservation law and the uncertainty principle would have to be taken explicitly through the process of internal measurement on purely material grounds.

        An issue of consciousness might just point to an incommensurability between conservation laws and the uncertainty principle. From your observation, I would guess Stapp may raise a negative aspect of the incommensurability as referring to the phenomenon of collapse. But, there seems to be a positive aspect, too. I'll think about it more.          All the best,        Koichiro"

Michael Lissack (7/98)
            "Are you coming to Managing the Complex in October (the weekend before NECSI?) I am certain you  would find a receptive audience among that portion of the complexity crowd."

Brian Josephson (8/98)        re NECSI (Complexity list) discussion of Robert Rosen, guided by Don Mikulecky
                                           "--On Wed, Aug 19, 1998  "James N Rose" wrote:

                                                 > Ergo, Don's Assumption #1 is mis-expressed.
                                                 > 1)mechanistic systems lack certain qualities that exist in nature.
                                                 >           The notion should rather be:
                                                 > 1)mechanistic systems display limited application(s) of the qualities
                                                 >     that exist in nature.

        The distinction may be just a matter of words but anyway it sparked off some thoughts. A comment I made at an ICCS '97 discussion was that the word 'meaning' ought to come into our considerations somewhere, and perhaps thought and intention ought to as well. These are things that may be fundamental to complex systems and not covered properly by our ambiguous quantum mechanical descriptions which I doubt are fully rescued by 'decoherence'. So we do need to ask questions about the structure of reality, as James in fact does, before we can really answer Don's question.

                                                  >
                                                   ... snip
                                                  > Complex systems may have top-down rule structure, required
                                                  > by the mere fact that higher level emergent qualities can only be
                                                  > coordinated via function-organization applicable within those levels,
                                                  > but, no fully integrated systems having integrity of operations
                                                  > throughout their respective system are viable without having first
                                                  > built functional coherence, viability and competence from the
                                                  > bottom-up. Each level must be functionally viable and sustaining
                                                  > first, in order to serve as a platform for any subsequent "emergence".

      I agree with this in particular, though the question of how much assistance there may or may not actually be coming down from the Top may be relevant.             Brian"

Beverly L. Brechner (10/98)
    "This is in answer to your inquiry. My thoughts are that you need to understand the topological notion of entropy, before you can put it in the context of a general definition that embraces many scientific areas.  I suggest that you learn some topological dynamical systems, then go to the mathematical literature (say via "Mathematical Reviews") to find papers on topological entropy, and see if it fits with the other uses of the word entropy. In particular, you need to understand well the uses of the word "entropy" in the other contexts, as well.

     I don't think I can be of additional help. But thank you for writing!"

Heiner Benking (10/98)    re web posting of full text of "Understanding the Integral Universe"
                                          " http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/uiu_plus/UIUcomplete11-99.htm
BRAVO -  need more time for it - time money can't buy.   BUT WE ARE SO GOOD A TEAM AND WITH PETER IN SAN FRANCISCO WE CAN DO SOME TREMORS TO THE OLD WRONG THINKING HABITS."

Yuri Bessarab (11/98)
       "Dear Valeri Aleksandrovich and James, I am so happy to read the real dialog of real philosophers. It's a wonderful example for me to look at! Thank you enormously! This is a gem!"

Bernard Baars (11/98)
        "Hi Jamie,     How are you? You are welcome to download and "mirror" any papers I have on my website www.wrightinst.edu/faculty/~baars . I can also send you a copy of the JCS article on GW theory, which was done with the explicit understanding that I could make it available elsewhere. And the TINS article, ditto.  

        My book, In the Theater of Consciousness: The Workspace of the Mind (Oxford, 1997) is the best overall general-public presentation of my stuff, by the way.  But the JCS article is a readable single article.

        I think you're doing something very important. I'm now in the process of trying to compile a list of "serious" supporters of consciousness science, to see if we can establish a listserv or a network, with the aim of creating an institutional basis for leading-edge, open-minded, but very sound scientific research. That could include both websites, and also a small number of universities. The seeds are growing, but serious support for research on consciousness is way behind the actual scientific developments.

                                            Let me know if you're interested.         Best wishes,    Bernie"

Lynn H Caporale (11/98)     (I wrote to her after posting her papers at 'Genre Works')
      "Your research is really pertinent to the thesis I promote about the interaction dynamics of diverse systems.   Do you know Dean Falk or her work ... brain development being synchronous with it's ability to handle heat fluxes ... and the impact this had on speciation in Australopithecines? I've got some of her material on-line too and have a brief blurb about it's connection to my thesis also.

        You ought to take a look. It all ties in with your work. One or two relatively minor changes in the genomes/codons (pardon if I use a term incorrectly) in the developing Australo-fetus where vascular tissue was competing for space with neural tissue ... and one started earlier than another or continued longer during certain developmental time periods, could have led to the observed changes in vascularization of the hominid brain, and the brain case formed by default in new arrangements as it hardened around the soft tissues ... then all this impacted the physical physiology differences of gracile and robustus -  including posture, cardio-metabolism control, et al, and eventually produced newer behavior options and possibilities for the subsequent hominid lineages in the world at large.

        The cascade effect - of profound proportions - could very well have been instigated by some subtle sublimb alteration trials at the primal chemical level. What I'm looking at is a fundamental shift in how we perceive the "information" coded for in genes. Yes there may be some specific "this sequence codes for that physiological structure" but the overwhelming "coding" is indirect and interactive ... for subsequent relationships in which structure and function and behavior-space are "determined, but not designed".

            Well, it makes sense to me, anyway ... :-). Any comment???!? Like to hear it.
                                                                                                                                                  Jamie"

Her reply:
          "Jamie-  An attempt to comment practically short-circuited my brain, as there are many different things to say! So much that is relevant to your last paragraph is contained in manuscripts in the Annals volume that will come from the NYAS meeting in June-- I expect this to be out in February, and will not try to summarize it in a few  sentences here. However, to begin: are you very familiar with Barbara  McClintock's writings? She was perhaps the first to think along these lines. I just got a copy of a tribute to her, "The Dynamic Genome" (Cold Spring Harbor Press) ed. Fedoroff and Botstein, and recommend looking at it.   It is possible to get something out of it without following all of the maize genetics.         Lynn"

Henry Cohen (11/98)
         "Congratulations for the work you have done and are doing  ...  I must now get acquainted with the wide contents of your site and get new points of view."

Diane Haugen (11/98)
        "You are right, the free will question is the one that always brings everybody up short, isn't it? More on that below.  .....     <snip>    What is neat about the integrity paradigm is that it provides an image to conceptualize what is even more important, that the choices you make, your use of your energies, actually creates your future choices. No, you can't choose everything -- chaos. Your choices are constrained, but you can change those choices by how you choose to manage your energies today. The future is a mix of opportunities roiling together in the energy soup, or as Jamie Sams says, the Native Americans call the Dream Weave. The old saw about opporutunity only knocks once."

following updated Jan 2000

Yaneer Bar-Yam  (Jan 1998)    co-founder of New England Complex Systems Institute
    "James,    Why don't you either write a note to the listserv or a short article to InterJournal. By the way, I think you are talking about interesting matters but do not take for granted either that the connection between your work and Harolds (Morowitz of Santa Fe Institute) is obvious"

Steve Kurtz  (May/1998)   (on "Nature of Insitituions and History of Money" conversation.)
I wrote:  "the US banking structure - through its system of loans, collateral, and accounting etc - could in effect "create" 5 to 7 times the amount of buying power, educed from x-amount of hard funds."

    "Hi Jamie,      You're correct re credit multiplier, but probably the factor is nearer 25-30 X than 5-7X.

    Reserve requirements for banks making loans can be in the 5% range, depending upon country & current credit policy (loose/tight). This is one way, besides raising and lowering interest rates, for central banks to influence the money supply. This would equal a factor of 20 by itself, for all monies borrowed from banks.

    No currency I'm aware of today has a solid backing like gold, silver, or even consumable commodities like petroleum or grain. These are called "fiat" currencies, a term that used to indicate a weak, inferior token.  It is the "faith & credit" non-backing that has permitted those controlling issuance of money (via loans!) to monopolize global economies. Most people are totally unaware that the US Federal Reserve System of Banks is NOT a government owned institution! Various megawealthy commercial banks - many not US domiciled (Swiss, Brit, German incl I think) own shares of stock in the Fed. A FOR PROFIT Corp!

Less important than the per share profit is the policy setting influences (global) which reward 'cooperative' regimes, and punish others."

G.A.Swanson  (Aug/1998)   (then President of ISSS, Intl Soc for Systems Sciences)
    Jamie,   Thank you for this concise overview of your interaction with Odum and others and relating it to entropy. As I have told you, I am very interested in various generalizations of the entropy notion and at the same time am not well grounded in the notion itself. I encourage you to pursue your efforts in the good humored manner you are demonstrating and look forward to our work together in ISSS growing.
        Best wishes...GA  

anonymous (Nov/1998)
     you are much too dangerous... [grin ]  BUT .. ARE ON THE RIGHT AND POSITIVE ! track !!!!!

Yuri Bessarab  (Nov/1998)    PPL news from Kiev  - on viability of PostPsychological Laboratory
    "..supportive letters of Elena Shmelkova and James Rose were very helpful at the most critical moments we were going through!    Sincerely,  PPL in Kiev."

    "Dear friends,   I would like to express my gratitude to Dr. Rose for his very encouraging letter! It feels really great to receive such support not for my vanity but because it is a sign of social approval of our activities."

an internet monitor (Nov/1998)
"just checked reports !!   http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/uiu_plus/UIUcomplete11-99.htm    is sky rocketing"

Sherryl Stalinski  (Nov/1998)   Aurora Now Foundation  on Integrity & Transformation
"This is the process of integrating both generative and strategic dialogue ("conversation") which Bela H. Banathy is so actively pursuing. We've implemented the process in non-academic/real world organizations very sucessfully already.    I'll send you my research paper as soon as I convert it to .pdf so I can email it to you."

Karen Voght  (Dec/1998)   about CI essay on TV Violence  (posted as correspondence)
    "James,     I am very interested in the email I just read.    I have written a pro-active pre-school Curriculum with the hopes of addressing early awareness of exactly what you are presenting. It seems to be taking on a life of its own, and maybe you could shed some more light on it.      I would enjoy learning more about your interest in this matter.    Thank you     Karen Voght "

Brad Bushman  (Dec/1998)   author of article of TV Violence (Dept of Psychology. Iowa State Univ.)
    "Professor Bushman,  Valery Kourinsky (Russia) posted the news of your research on his "Post Psychological Laboratory" list, and I tendered a commentary/reply which I thought you might find of interest, and have forwarded to you here.   My regards,  James Rose, Ceptual Institute."

    "Dear James,    Thanks so much for sending me this reply!    Warm regards,  Brad "

 

§  §  §  §  §  §  § §  §  §  §  §  §  § §  §  §  §  §  §  §

1999

 

Steve Kurtz (Jan/1999)   on Anthropocentrism
    "Greetings all,   Some earlier discussions by Gintis, Roper, McGowen are in the section labelled "anthropo- centrism" among other categories at lower half of this archive section: http://csf.colorado.edu/ecol-econ/   some comments by others on those pieces are found by clicking on "appear here" at bottom of anthro. page"

"Jamie, Your comments make good sense to me. I've traded in theoretical logic for common sense pragmatism on this subject. Epistemology and Consciousness studies don't seem to be much help. :-)     Steve"

Dr. Mihaela Ulieru (Jan/1999)(U.Calgary, CA)  re Zadeh Logic/Soft Computing/Human Psychology
    "Dear James,  Thank you for sending the address of this wonderful info! It enriches me.   Mihaela Ulieru "

Bruce Buchanan  (Jan/1999)   re: Anthropocentrism
Jamie writes:   "It was not either/or at the personal level and it is not either/or at the social/cultural level. It is both birth/tradition AND environment which complement interactively, to produce the world we are in.... Humanity is anthropocentric by physiology, humanity is ethnocentric by habituation, humanity is trans-centric, meta-centric, and even pluro-centric by Conceptual Association, by empathy, and by the ability to identify our 'self' with "more" and with "else".... people, Gaia."

Well said!     IMO, what freedom we have lies in our capacities to create new possibilities, and new choices. When we recognize the limitations of previously accepted categories it may become possible, to some degree, to move beyond them.         Cheers.     Bruce

H.Benking (Jan/1999)   re Anthropocentrism
    "well done JAMIE ! BRUCE WORDS ARE GOOD VALUE"

Kirby Urner (Jan/1999)  Mathematician, Educator, Buckminster Fuller specialist, Society of Friends Leader
        "Jamie --  Feel free to excerpt for your comments page ..."

"To: "synergetics-l" synergetics-l@telelists.com    From: Kirby Urner pdx4d@teleport.com
Subject: [synergetics-l]    Re: Complementarity

"Doing some more search engine this PM re negentropy and came across The Integrity Papers by James Rose, with links to lots of familiar websites, including Beautifulcode, NL.  Rose looks at local entropic systems as cofunctioning in synergetic complement, thereby creating negentropy at a higher level e.g. life. He gets polemical vs. the Stuart Kauffman model (which I cited above) re "autocatalysis", which he regards as unnecessary. On the other hand, I see a lot of  overlap re "exaptations" (unanticipated synergetic responses,
ala Margulis examples of surprising symbiosis) -- life and surprise go together."

"But the ties to 'Synergetics' are even deeper, for example check out the passage below re interstabilizing proton and neutron via augmented "local entropies" including additional particle types, and compare to Fuller's graphic at:   http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/synergetics/s09/figs/f3523.html   -- a pair of complementary zigzags we already understand at a more generic level in synergetics (as symbolic of complementarity or interstabilizing -- perhaps surprisingly i.e. precessionally -- of cofunctions).[1]

Likewise, Rose is doing "information systems" as attuned energy channeling systems (energy = information). He sees them optimizing somewhat below their absolute capacity, and potentially disrupted if overtaxed, not simply because of their inability to absorb new info, but because of the *rate* at which the new info might be incoming (bandwidth). The bubble might burst because the required adaptations come with too short a deadline attached -- perhaps the modifications could have been made, given more time.

This model is very familiar to students of synergetics, which  attaches geometric metaphors (omnidirectional halo) to the  above, including to the events of (sometimes painful) system destruction, at times when the incoming anomolies are clearly overloading whatever system's ability to cope.

I'd also make the link to 'Paradise Mislaid' (E.J. Applewhite) which looks at concepts of 'life' and 'alive', perhaps as manifestations of cosmic integrity aka the principle of   synergy.[2]

====================

[1]

Nuclear proton-neutron resonance displays a degree of stability not found in the separate particles...the electron and anti-neutrino components of a neutron stabilize as their region of occupancy increases by the localization of a proton in close proximity to the neutron. {a dynamic interpretation of the strong and weak forces}. The enlarged entropic type diffusion of the sub-particles through an enlarged region of functioning congeals the two larger masses. A similar activity occurs for electron clouds and the resultant congealing of atoms. A "small field entropy" of sorts, counters general entropy found at the next level of activity, with the result that systems of greater and greater complexity and greater and greater relative Integrity occur (when construction, interaction and environment permit).

[A DISCUSSION OF THE FOUR PLANE UNIVERSE CONUNDRUM by James N.Rose, Spring, 1973
http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/uiu_plus/1973.htm ]

[2]

Massive crosslinked pathways begin to accumulate extraordinary information quantae. And the extent of "conscious behavior" depends on the fitness, vigor and magnitude of integral feedback loops. It is a process of Synergy. Simple components combining to make responsive-entities which are so much more than the simple sum of their parts. Old style reductionist thinking would say that this makes Life only a conglomeration of mundane mechanistic operations. Quite the contrary. The way we or any life forms experience "living" is exactly what our perceptions tell us it is. We are not randomly quivering blobs of protoplasm. We are thoughtful, conscious, spiritual, emotional, energetic, goal-oriented, striving sentient creatures. We seek to endure.
[The Integrity Paradigm vis a vis Rudolph A. Marcus's Theory of electron transfer reactions in chemical systems by James N.Rose excerpting from his "Understanding the Integral Universe" (1992)
http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/genre/marcus/marcusuiu.htm]

John Croft (Jan/1999)  Ministry of Commerce, Australia  re:  Anthropocentrism
     "James  Your wonderful description of the larger I - bigger than what has been called "the skin encapsulated ego" - is what in Deep Ecological circles is called "the ecological self".

    "Ethical development of the human species has seen the enlargement of our boundary of moral concern from
the individual (as a completely egocentric new born child) to the family, to the peers (as a teenager) or the
tribe, then to the nation and maybe to humanity as a whole. Biocentricism takes the logical next step and
extends our boundary of moral concern that extra step. Without taking it and using it as an organising principle
for a life sustaining society, our future will in all probability be nasty, brutish and short.... (Given Jay's dieoff
scenarios we are heading that way anyway).       For the Earth      John

Michael S. Mitchell (Jan/1999)   co-worker of Buckminster Fuller's for many years.
    James Rose wrote:   "The identical wave function over and over again, simply transposed 90 degrees each time. Integrating RETAINS AN INTRINSIC INFORMATION and merely alters it slightly. Now, what if we overlay that concept on ALL integrations and differentiations ?!?!?! What looks on the surface like "different" information, just may be alternative ways of expressing the exact "same" information, with some additional whiz thrown in! Strange? maybe. Weird? absolutely. Reasonable? yes, and worth exploring. Food for thought. I gave you the thought, please send food.  :-)   "

    "Unitivity is my tool word for this unitific organization of allexperience into the aggregate concept possible. This is your attack on the entropy of awareness. To make all possible factors understood with the simplest process of economic reasoning. Do more with less with thought and experience. My concern is how much garbage should we unlearn and for instance The most sacred of learned knowledge could be the one key log that is holding the true nature river to a log break of being happy with ideas."

    "I like your ideas very much. Thank you. The concept that all is interchangeable and that the different angles allow the principles of the awesome universe to be humbling to all of us, is my cup of tea in your discourse. HERE HERE!"                   .. and ..

    "I think you are very concerned about the right way thank you for your site to look into what you see as the big picture. It is attempts like yours that make the world worth while. Thank you for your convergence and co-operation."

Ron Blue  (Jan/1999)   re: Artificial Intelligence and Quantum/Holonomic Computing
    "I got your post forwarded by Mozilla from Enticypress.com.   Let me say again your post was exceptional in understanding the connections with knowledge and quantum mechanics. To me you were describing the CORE processor and how memory was distributed in string memory."   

    I replied:
    "We are in an information age which has given many many bright minds access to the same data and experiences and so many of us have recognized new more fundamental truths of the universe, each of us at the same time and coming from many different interests.    But now is not the time to be playing "king-o'-the-hill" for ego's sake.   That's why I started the http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/genre.htm Genre section that applauds the vision of thinkers in many different fields.  If you have one or a few pertinent papers that expresses the uniqueness of your ideas, I hope you'll allow me to post them at Ceptual Institute ~ Genre."

  "I agree totally! I will send you my documents and you can post the ones you feel have merit".  "We seem to be in agreement about many things. Your kindness and patent wisdom shines through your word. I will send you documents for your consideration to be posted at your site. I am a psychologist. How about yourself."

[Ron Blue's several papers on AI are available through CI at http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/genre/blue/homepageRB.htm]  

Bill Ellis    TRANET   (Feb/1999)
   (Rose)"I just hosted a cable access TV simulcast with Robert Theobald's feed of the "Resilient Communities" project. ... Here I was, anxious to promote Robert's ... notion that humanity needs a fundamental shift in its value systems and coordination and sense of neighborliness even ... with Y2K being the situation that focuses us on the possibility ..".

    "Thanks Jim for the exciting report on BobT's simulcast.  You did good."

Karl Erickson   (Feb/1999)
    "integrity as tao. synergetics as unavoidably taoistic"

David Chako   "synergetics-l"     (Feb/1999)
    (Rose)"no one has done it yet, but I think it would be rather important ... to specify not just how E and M coordinate behaviorally, but some fundamental underlying geometry of why they do. (!) What is it in the geometry or topology of existence that causes or requires "wave functions" to even exist???"

  "Now your talking. These are precisely the regions of study that I find most intriguing and with the greatest possibilities for creative evolution."

Jerry Kurtyka   Whitestone Technology   (Feb/1999)
    "A VERY interesting site. As a complexity "groupie", I am fascinated so far, but I'm not sure I understand what it's all about. You say emergence isn't magical, there is a contextual reason for it? That's where I lose you.
What paper herein is sort of a layman's explanation of your theory? Or is the math essential?"

"Also, why don't you put up a resume' of yourself. I'm always interested in the background of people who are original thinkers, but outside the official establishment. I guess I get some kind of vicarious inspriation from their
lives."

Michel Cabanac   Dept Physiology, Laval Univ., Canada    (Feb/1999)
    "Hello James!    Your credo, on Integrity first page, is superb. You do not mention Teilhard de Chardin. Do you know his work? 'Le phenomene humain' shaped (imprinted, moulded) my mind when I was a teenager and remains a landmark in my life.      Amicalement,  M"

Thomas Beale    Deep Thought Informatics Pty Ltd    (Feb/1999)
"It will probably take me a little while to read and contemplate.....BTW, your links page is pretty interesting....just thinking - if you've read Odum (obviously you have) you should really look at Ulanowicz "Ecology - the ascendent perspective"."

Phyllis Creighton  (Mar/1999)    on Proposal for saving Social Security (USA) - viz.Canada's "Tobin Tax"
    "Dear James Rose,    This ordinary citizen finds your descriptive account tidy but dizzying!   Clearly, taxing this sector is vital if we are to get a grip on speculation and a brake on the outrageous transfer of wealth that is widening the gap between rich and poor, globally and locally."

Kirby Urner   synergetics-l    (Mar/1999)
    "I'm amazed you've found anything to engage with in (-)'s incessent babbling. I consider that a symptom of your own very active mind, which gives you the ability to bounce intelligence off just about any set of events. Bucky had the same ability"

Mark T. Shirey  HRB/RaytheonSystems  (Mar/1999)    "Shirey's 'Barlett's redux'"
   (Rose) I found your site while searching for who authored "God is in the details".

  "I always see it attributed to van der Rohe, but surely Flaubert preceded (Le bon Dieu est dans le detail. ("The good God is in the details").) I've also heard "The Devil is in the details."

    (Rose) “...and the System laughed”

  "Very nice. I've heard of the "Aha! Experience" (good book by that name by Martin Gardner), but never before heard of the "Ha Ha! Experience" :)          Good Luck,  Mark"

David Chako (Mar/1999)
   "James, I really enjoyed your post. I empathize with the way you think/see.     My only concern is your identification of energy with information. To me, that is like equating silicon with computer chips: the former is the raw material, the latter is a pattern created from the material. Certainly, the material must support the pattern (a paper wall won't stop a tank), but the pattern is the mental state of the information, and can be abstracted as a generalization. Perhaps each pattern has an ideal realization/manifestation, so that we can speak of the unification of pattern and material, but I still can't shake the sense that the pattern is the information; the material is where the information resides (money in the bank).       Perhaps we could clarify this process?"

Robert W. Amory (Mar/1999)      Re: Machiavellian Gene-Control
  "Dear Dr. Rose,    In reference to your article entitled: 'Public Information: Machiavellian Gene-Control' I am
sure that any sane individual would find the events described alarming. Aside from the question of whether the genetic information encoded in the 'terminator gene' will leak into the biosphere another more mundane question presents itself: Will agricultural producers and consumers put up with such abuse? Unless the insidious powers that be mandate the use of these kamikaze seeds, what is to prevent a more World friendly competitor to these would be Napoleons from producing and marketing a normal product. And any casual perusal of the literature on the national and international responses of consumers to genetically engineered produce (which appears to boarder on the paranoia) suggests that only an absolutely suicidal political system would contemplate such an Orwellian turn of events.   ...

Thanks for the Web Site!       Best Regards, Robert W. Amory

Stuart Kauffman Bios Group; Santa Fe Institute  (Apr/1999)
    "Thanks for helpful hints! Stu Kauffman"

Vyacheslav L. Kalmykov  (Apr/1999)
  "My site "Generalized Theory of Life (Organization and Evolution of Organic Wholeness)" may be of interest for you. It concern the most integral physicalš understanding complexity and self-ogranization. It's URL - http://www.iteb.serpukhov.su/gentl/   With many thanks for your site."

  "Integrity is the great thing - I am happy to begin the reading."

  (Rose) It seems to me that the architecture of a system is it's first line of 'memory'. ... The software is in the hardware. ... I like to phrase it, "the software is in and part of the hardware".

        "You are right and your point of view is really of importance."

Valery A. Kourinsky   (Apr/1999)  
  "Dear Jamie,    As to your spare... It seems to be huge, and I am sure it is really, because of energy, e.g., of consolation in everything you realize, prepare, express insistently and with a bright clearness. And yet notwithstanding with that I, for example, wait for the new and already tangible stage of your diversified activity, the kind of which is rare by now because of its encyclopedic resistance against narrowness and fake essence of reductionistic encyclopedism of narrow-minded "supremacy" aiming nit-pickers. The idea of integrity, in case it will influence it itself, "will wax" irrefutably new and humane time, relations, science etc. That all around it may and, probably, can to coincide with maybe-divine goal of moral and other world-improvement. So I and my people that belong together would like always to be "isophoric" to your cordial trys...  Onward! And every which way :-).          Supportingly,  Valery

(May/1999) "Thank you, Jamie, I just have arrived to possibility of reading my mail, and before for about a week was busy as a bee at a sunny day. Integrity claims a sort of indefatigability from its champions. :-)    I have had very often opportunity to remind about your grand work in this field and your charisma.    Valery

Kim James (Apr/1999) Psi International, UK
  "I agree with what you say"

  (Rose) Complexity's fundamental message is : freedom is as important as communication and linked behaviors. Poised not on the fine edge between chaos and order but in a latitude range that balances many chaoses and many orders....even ones that won't be encountered until the systems proceed for a while.

  "Agreed whole heartedly"

  "Aha ! I have been into your website and spent a lot of money on looking at it all. We pay by the minute here unfortunately for our local calls and I got so entranced with your web particularly the maths that I forgot to download to read later !. Never mind well worth it and I now know what you and your family look like. Just about as I imagined.   Best wishes, Kim"

Nicholas C. Arguimbau    (Apr/1999)       Hostile to war?
  "Thank you. You stated very eloquently the reasons why as I said, "Advocacy of war is not in my repertoire." It is wrong, period. But once in a blue moon it is a good idea to check one's beliefs against the practical short-term and long-term consequences they imply".

Richard Bohn     (May/1999)     
Greetings.... i only now stumbled upon your doorstep by following the footsteps of Anthony Judge .... and ... well ... i too am attempting to absorb everything that is happening within and without us ...... before .. now .. and after us ...   I work on these matters along the bank of the river alone mostly and i just want to say how wonderful to come upon signs of life and more ... indications that humanity is one family ... with one heart. I am glad you are here and i am not so alone.

I will read the matierial on this site and say now ... thank you .... richard bohn ...

Mishtu Banerjee  Scientificals Consulting  (June/1999)     
Hi:  I've taken a quick look at your paper generalizing entropy, and on tropic manifolds at http://www.ceptualinstitute.com/uiu_plus/isss1999/ROSEentropy.htm    interesting stuff, but I'm going to have to puzzle over it a few times, before I can say much more.

(June/1999)  "Really nice design. I have to honestly say, I don't know what to make of your site on my first perusal.   Loved finding poetry at the end of your articles ......    Poetry, of course, requires a response in kind, so here's a few of mine on entropy, Godel, biology, back at you."

David Meyer  UC-San Diego  (June/1999)     [re: The Physics & Philosophy of open systems]
  James Rose concluded: To do 'good physics' and especially to do 'good general systems' you have to do the math AND the metaphors.

  "I agree completely ... as long as they are good metaphors. It's just not clear to me that a definition like:  (Rose) "Fitness" ... is the ability to function competently within behavior spaces that are open to variation ...   is going to lead to metaphors which are useful for inanimate systems, such as electons in molecules, to use James' example, no matter how complex. "Function" and "behavior" have connotations of intention which seem likely to be misleading.  But if thinking in terms of this metaphor leads to more than metaphor, then great. 

Pascalle Sweerts    The Halcyon Cosmopolitan Entertainment   (June/1999)
  " Great site you have!  We have added a link to your site some time ago, but we had no time to let you know.
You can find the link at our frontpage http://www.xs4all.nl/~kosmoss/index.html third table: JAMES N. ROSE"   

Hal Puthoff      (June/1999)      re:  on HRP Origin of Inertia
  (Rose) <snip> "That is the fundamental a priori that I have a potential answer for, which has been missing from all the physics of the past thousands of years"

     "What is it? Can you share it?"

   (Rose) <reply text concludes> "... So tell me, Hal, is the universe Abelian or non-Abelian?

     "Haven't a clue yet! :-)       Thanks for the update. I look fwd to seeing detail.    Best regards,  Hal "

Kirby Urner    (June/1999)      'Dialog continues ...'
   "Kirby, can you tell me if I'm koo-koo or not, since I find Stu Kauffman's ideas very troubling, incomplete, and more grandiose than accurate. But it seems that everyone, to a person, is enamored of his ideas.  Jamie"

   [KU] "I think he's done a good job of presenting his thinking. He comes off in his lecture (the one I saw) as speculating, i.e. he's not a stuffy "handing you the gospel" type.     I think it's probably not either/or regarding your thinking or his. If you've studied his thinking enough to have serious problems with it, then from a distance (lay audience perspective) you'll ipso facto be seen to have a lot in common (i.e. enough of a common meme pool to stage a splash fight).    Kirby"

RM Kiehn   (June/1999)   'Cross ratio probabilities ... ideas'
  "Hi   I am not sure that I follow your ideas re entropy, nor do I see how it comes from the speculative note I sent to Sarfatti on the Projective cross ratios and two distinct probabilities. On the other hand I have not clarified entropy in my own mind, but I have used topological methods to clarify the concepts of a thermo- dynamic irreversible process.   See  http://www.uh.edu/~rkiehn  et.seq.  
****
  With regards to a first reading of your entropy/negentropy article:
1 Sums of parts often do not admit factors. In fact entangled states in quantum mechanics is precisely when an additive combination of wave functions can not be decomposed into factors (the simplest examples are the prime numbers)
2. How is symmetry breaking related to topological dimensionality?
3. What do you mean by topological dimensionality? (I know what I mean).
4. Not all forces are represented by gradients. Irreversible processes generally involve forces such that the cyclic work is not zero. All gradient forces produce zero cyclic work. Hence irreversible processes cannot be achieved by gradient forces.  In the real world almost all processes are to some extent thermodynamically
irreversible.
5. What is topological architecture? Generally topological properties do not include shape or "form".
6. What is meant by 3 variable Loci.?
***
I like to start from a set of postulates or axioms, and deduce certain results. For example, I assume that electro magnetism can be described by two topological constraints in a variety, and then deduce a number of  consequences that match experience, and a number of new concepts that admit of measurement.  My methods and results can be checked and the deductions replicated by others.
***
You offer a set of pronouncements and descriptions, without a derivation base that I can replicate. Hence I have to take your stuff on faith, or wait until a more deducible explanation is available. I do not like to operate on faith.
***
To repeat, I have yet to feel comfortable with my understanding of entropy (I can manipulate the tools, but I am not comfortable with the concept). On the other, I am comfortable with my topological derivations of irreversibility and the arrow of time built upon the facts associated with continuous topological evolution.
Regards,  RMK"

Gaia Foundation  (July/1999)  
  "Jamie  I loved your stories.. Particularly the two that follow:..The next day I was walking on the dunes and watching a group of gulls coasting the water just a few inches off the surface. It reminded me of a story about WWII where a pilot in the Pacific was low on fuel and couldn't reach land, so he came down to the water's surface and flew just above the wave tops. It seems he knew why the seabirds fly so low all the time. They generate a bow wave and that portion of it that reaches the water surface will   bounce off back up into the atmosphere, under their wings. They fly low to re-capture the energy they throw off and the shockwave adds lift and lets them fly by using less energy (fuel). The plane made it to land safely.

A few years ago a model boat enthusiast I met was telling me about fine-tuning the muffler on his boat engine. It seems that if you make a tube baffle that flares and then constricts just the right way based upon the output of the gasses, you create just the right amount of back pressure that creates a cavita- tion of the rpm spectrum and can double the rpm limits of an engine having an open exhaust port.

The prop spins faster and you win races.  Here cavitation was used to create less fiction and back pressure from the upper energy production environment. Typical cavitation is when the prop in the water catches air instead, and the engine also runs faster, but that speed is wasted because the prop is not in contact with the water it needs to grab.  Cavitation up top allowed the extra rpms while the prop held contact with the water (Basically, the muffler shape is partly a conic rendition of the bowwave, reflected back for a slightly different use of the energy). Positive and negative feedback routes.
                    <Snip>
Our work entails the added issue that we can't wait around while too many suffer for anyone else's shortsightedness. Like you  say, John  ... prepare for the worst, work for the best."

Shirley Whiting   (July/1999)    Interested in Ceptual Institute
  "Dear James Rose -
I've discovered your page through some systems sites sent me by Heiner Benking. I'm fascinated with the concepts and applications you've layed out in A House of Horizons and Perspectives - It's what's so badly needed in education at every level. I have a background in early childhood education